Themen die uns heute bewegen.
s_max:
Öhm du mit dem Ulmer Modell ... ich hab mal folgende Berechnung angestellt:
Jeder Einwohner bekommt bedingungslos 800 €, davon sollen 200 € in insurance flow
remain so still 600 € each. If one of 1600 € or less worthy are you so 50%
from his income to the state, one also deserves more than the 1600 € you pay 25%
his income as taxes.
€ 1 600 - 800 € = 800 € (tax deduction)
€ 600 + 800 € = 1,400 € (of which everyone can live a normal human, as shown by Hartz IV recipients
living on less than one-third)
If I have made a miscalculation, then comes out of the state to 0 and the Ulm model is financially viable. What counted was
Katja yes only population Germany views the 800 €
84 000 000 Einwohner * 800€ = 67 200 000 000 €
Das wären die 67 Mrd. die Katja jährlich berechnet hat.
Entweder ich bin untauglich oder es rechnet sich wirklich...
d.h. ich kann garnicht kontra argumentieren...
Karina:
das ist nicht wirklich das ulmer Modell, das ist die allgemeinheit, oder zumindest eher das "Althaus-Modell" aber Ulmer Modell ist auch so ähnlich.. das ist mal das erste ...
laut Staat, rendiert es sich wirklich. weil die heutigen Ausgaben sich auf siebenhunder-irgendwas-milliarden euro jährlich beruhen, mit diesem bürgergeld würden sich die ausgaben vom staat auf 500-irgendwas-milliarden euro jährlich . Reduce
Where the money comes from is of course quite obvious that these taxes by 50%, or 25% tax!
However, at this 25% tax (ie on an income of more than 1600 €) reduces the "great citizen's income" to the "little people money," which consists of 400 € (-200 € for health insurance, or 200 €).
course you have to also expect that all benefits cease, such as child benefit, pension insurance, general insurance all you have to pay yourself .. housing benefit, unemployment benefit, student loans and so on, is not it all be ...
Today, this already .. the people of the Hartz4 live, their homes still get their fees paid GEZ, various insurance companies and then you still have what's left and what is left over, get paid practically, and then to have to live on the hand.
at the public money you get only the money and must pay them the whole story.
Do you understand?
That is, in principle one has the same money, but there is more to the cost itself has to bear.
s_max:
yes to me ... okay Ulmer lights already a model I've written wrong but still ... that's the problem I supposed to prove that it does not count ... but the calculation shows that the state at least in plus comes out
Karina:
clear! The state is definitely on the plus, out, I mean this is also the goal .. if people make a Pus is very questionable. Because
The ones today have to go to work and have to work more or less in the end if you luck containing the same money in the pocket.
today if anyone deserves € 1600 (that is pulled off with everything) then it has this 1600 €, in case the citizen's income for the same work he had only 1200 like you said.
can live with that but with it, but how? this is the question.
s_max:
can live with 1400 Ah well ... at least relatively well ...
Karina:
think? if all you have to pay your insurance contributions?
detention weaves etc. ..
sees how about when your children want to study? BAföG gibts nicht ... that is they have to go to work ... in some not so practical courses ....
the way!
with this health-package, there is one probably differ no more in the insurance, whether as too sick or too old or something is, each must be included, but if the sickness insurance money costs too much, it is necessary to increase contributions whether it increases the civil money also is questionable.
s_max:
You must not forget that the unconditional basic income, so every person is entitled to more than 18 years ... that you finance your studies yourself =) the last one probably will but just enough
Karina:
shit .. yes true .. 're right ... I am with my thinking as much mmmh think too much tied to the existing system .. now I myself am confused ... but well, now thinking more times when everyone gets the same and therefore everyone is on their own and each is in his own hand down to see how much money he earned, then virtually everyone is fighting for a larger earnings-forward with everyone. . This means that the company most likely from the State (or by the government) the government is then split off only as observers from up there ... But he does nothing except each month to pay all the money. and what if there are not enough jobs? and it is as yet no work with your 600 euro from you then have to pay the rent, etc. .. so you get no more support from the state ... you are vol and very much on your own .... do not you think that has a touch of communism? the rent go down because the man is the one probably can not afford ... WGs are formed ... generally go down the prices every ... baaam and we are in communism, either all have the same or there is the rich elite who pay lots of tax needs as other income-BECAUSE divident, etc, must be taxed for rent. still a joke here: who is sentenced for tax evasion or illegal work, the citizen's income, deleted entirely, and this gets only food vouchers!
s_max:
to me is clearly ...
is what we have already debated this same ... but it helps me not to continue with communism ... so we do something tomorrow ... in the debate but it is purely about the financial sustainability for the state and I have demonstrate why it is not permanently affordable and will not do
Karina:
but .. this is definitely affordable .. why not? financially no wonder .. but it is human ... whether the people are satisfied or not, in case that the people are not satisfied, and they will, could escalate it pretty .. and the government would thus be less than happy with the fact of having less carbon in the checkout ...
affordable is our existing system ..
s_max:
No, today is not financially viable ... otherwise would have the brd not the largest debt in history
Karina: finance
and yet it
if you think so, nothing is affordable! I mean who gives you have any money monthly
s_max:
are speaking there is a difference between finance and "finance" the latter makes the State ... to borrow money with the guarantee of the nation ...
and finance is something only if you earned the money and invest in anch a plus ... and this creates is you never have to ... let's see zeitgeist. _D
Will you rule over a country, so to show that you must not make the currency for the country: _D
Karina:
just! In any case, Germany will be in debt .. pay off and it never
believe anyway because of that .. whether it be little more or little less is ... degree no matter ...
believe me, none of the mini stronger has serious liabilities before the settle .. who say this, but will not do it ...
as I said .. such a system to me smells a lot like middle-class dissatisfaction .. and as history has shown many times, you know what it can escalate to a civil discontent .. a war is more favorable?
alone when you consider where this system has been pulled so far .. Brazil, Mongolia and Namibia .. Now imagine even Germany before then just ...
not think because you do not fit what?
s_max:
Achwas ... who want to salvation ... but all the world ... if you implement the same everywhere then one probably does it already ... but that's utopia ... what do you think the why is the people in Africa and so is that bad? because the state is not as deep in debt ... because when people sit in the policies that have unknowing and hirnverblödet not completely rumlatschen
Karina:
And so we come out with a completely different point. :))
